Are you up for a challenge?

Garry Edwards

Garry Edwards

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Garry Edwards
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Now that I’ve been demoted to moderator, I think it’s time to get people involved in their lighting journey.

Years ago, before I retired, I occasionally hosted lighting workshops for TP members and also sometimes invited members to attend shoots, all paid for by the lighting firm that I worked with at the time, but I can’t do that now. Also, there used to be a lot of threads about lighting techniques, but most of the threads today seem to be about equipment choices and issues about equipment. Maybe that’s just a sign of the times, but I would like to see whether this forum can move forward and provide a better learning experience to our membership.


What do I have in mind?

  1. Each month, the challenge leader will post a new thread, showing how the subject was lit, showing the thinking behind all of the various aspects, the position of the lights and so on and, if possible, including stepback shots. It will be all about the lighting, so ideally there should be NO post-processing work, we want to show the faults and challenges, not mask them.
  2. All other members are then invited to photograph a subject that shares the same type of lighting challenge, and post their results as a reply. I think that one new challenge each month should be about right, giving everyone a month to add their own input.
  3. The subject should be something that most people can photograph in a small space, because we want to include people who only have a small space – very few of us have a large studio.
  4. The lighting equipment can be literally anything, from flashguns to studio flash, from desklights to window light, top brands to DIY, it’s all about creating light and shadow, the right gear can make life easier but not everyone has it.
  5. The subject should be something that most of us have available. As an example, I can post one on photographing snooker cues, a lot of people will have a snooker cue available but anything similar, with a shiny cylindrical surface, will be a fine alternative. I once did a tutorial about photographing rifles, but that would be a much more difficult type of subject for most of us to undertake. I also feel that we should avoid nudes, because we want the threads to be safe for work, and TP already has a dedicated forum for this type of photography. Other than that, the subject range will be open.
  6. I’ll be happy to start things off, and to step back in from time to time, but I’m hoping that other people will set their own lighting challenge, because I have my own way of doing things and we will be able to learn more if other people, with different approaches, mount their own challenges. Just PM me if you want to do this.
This is a discussion thread only, I want to hear your views on whether this is a good idea or not and whether or not you will support it. If you think that it won’t work, please say why, and if you have suggestions for improvement, once again please say so!

If we go ahead with this we may need a dedicated Lighting Challenge sub-forum, this is something that I can raise with the admins.
 
Congratulations on your "demotion" :)

This sounds like a great idea (I don't know if I'll get time to participate very often, other than to comment, but it should be interesting to view and read the different approaches).
 
Many years ago (in the pre-digi days) I used to shoot Portraits and Group Shots using portable mains powered lights and/or Flashguns. I knew quite a bit about lighting people for portraits but these days I only shoot landscape & travel so my everytime lighting is the big ball in the sky often with a huge softbox (cloudy days0 which can sometimes be reflectors, so, whilst I would be interested to look in on this type of challenge I would not be contributing.
 
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I gave away nearly all of my studio flashes, stands, reflectors etc about 6 years ago, not really part of my hobby now.
If I can't find a way to do something that my daughter can't see either, I have a copy of the Lighting Bible which will guide me in the right direction, so I would echo the above "whilst I would be interested to look in on this type of challenge I would not be contributing"
 
This sounds like an interesting idea, with work and my other missions I will struggle to join in each month, but I think I'd be interested to chip in as and when I can.

I'll keep an eye on this.

Garry Edwards said:
Now that I’ve been demoted to moderator
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I hope you negotiated a better wage than the others got ;) :exit: Happy hunting!
 
Garry Edwards said:
I would like to see whether this forum can move forward and provide a better learning experience to our membership.
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I think that's an admirable goal, so I'm happy to support where I can - even if it's just by taking part.

Some thoughts....
- Including set up shots is a good idea, but a single thread might become cluttered with different photos from different people. Not sure how you were thinking of operating it, but something like the 52, where you have a "main pics" (no comment) thread where you show the result, and a personal thread where you document your journey and take comments might be less cluttered.
- Subject is going to be tricky. I have no snooker cues around and thinking of my wife's crutches (which are probably the closest I've got), I would imagine a fair bit of space or background material would be needed? I'm also not sure it would be very inspiring... I think keeping the subject really simple, or sticking to adjectives rather than nouns (moody, high key, silhouetted etc as opposed to "long shiny thing" or "plant", or "portrait") would detach the physical subject from the lighting style. I would imagine you'd perhaps get more creative entries and more interest. It would also make it more about the lighting and less about the subject - which sounds like that's your intent anyway.

That's my tuppence. I think it's a good idea, and anything that gets folks thinking about how they control light is a good thing.
 
Gav. said:
I hope you negotiated a better wage than the others got ;) :exit: Happy hunting!
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I've got a very good deal, they're paying me exactly what I'm worth:)

I appreciate that not everyone will be able to take part, some of us have a lot more time and resources than others.

Harlequin565 said:
I think that's an admirable goal, so I'm happy to support where I can - even if it's just by taking part.

Some thoughts....
- Including set up shots is a good idea, but a single thread might become cluttered with different photos from different people. Not sure how you were thinking of operating it, but something like the 52, where you have a "main pics" (no comment) thread where you show the result, and a personal thread where you document your journey and take comments might be less cluttered.
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This is probably the best way forward, if there is enough interest to move forward I will ask for advice and help from the admins.
Harlequin565 said:
- Subject is going to be tricky. I have no snooker cues around and thinking of my wife's crutches (which are probably the closest I've got), I would imagine a fair bit of space or background material would be needed? I'm also not sure it would be very inspiring... I
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A crutch is basically similar to a snooker cue in terms of shape and not too far off perhaps in terms of reflectivity - lighting is really all about shape, texture and reflectivity and isn't about purpose. A snooker cue is about 57" in length, people who don't have enough space could photograph a part of it, or a similar or smaller item of similar shape and reflectivity, it doesn't really matter.

Harlequin565 said:
I think keeping the subject really simple, or sticking to adjectives rather than nouns (moody, high key, silhouetted etc as opposed to "long shiny thing" or "plant", or "portrait") would detach the physical subject from the lighting style. I would imagine you'd perhaps get more creative entries and more interest. It would also make it more about the lighting and less about the subject - which sounds like that's your intent anyway.

That's my tuppence. I think it's a good idea, and anything that gets folks thinking about how they control light is a good thing.
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A very good idea, but I'm thinking (rightly or wrongly) about forcing gently encouraging members to step outside their comfort zone and try photographing things that they wouldn't normally attempt. it's amazing what people can achieve, but it isn't about the results, it's about the process.
 
Garry Edwards said:
but it isn't about the results, it's about the process.
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Garry Edwards said:
lighting is really all about shape, texture and reflectivity and isn't about purpose
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I think I'm misunderstanding something. Are you really talking about product-style photography where the technical aspects are "right" or "wrong" from a "clients" point of view?
 
I would be keen to have a go at some of the challenges, Time being the biggest constraint, oh and size, maybe pen, watch, glass tumbler size to start with.
Having a 52 type setup with an image only thread plus personal threads is a good idea.
Maybe a 2 speed approach so that some people would miss out on the monthly task if time is an issue. I do not like being rushed if I'm finding things are difficult.
 
ps don't forget people will be going on holibobs soon, I'm off on monday for 2 weeks
 
Harlequin565 said:
I think I'm misunderstanding something. Are you really talking about product-style photography where the technical aspects are "right" or "wrong" from a "clients" point of view?
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No, I'm talking about lighting a subject to show it at its best, regardless of the type of subject, and the whole approach is subjective - the person who posts the challenge will demonstrate their approach and technique, other people can either copy him/her or try a different approach. But, inevitably, there may be some overlap with product photography, which also shows products at their best.
seaodyssey said:
Maybe a 2 speed approach so that some people would miss out on the monthly task if time is an issue. I do not like being rushed if I'm finding things are difficult.
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Good point
 
The idea of helping people 'see' light is a fantastic one - so many of us look at a subject rather than the light that hits it.
I think it's a fantastic suggestion Garry. I have no lights, but at times try to use a window and a piece of card/sheet to control the light and shadows.
So while this isn't my area of photography I'm certainly going to be trying to take part and even more certainly going to be reading and looking at whatever people come up with.
 
I like the suggestion, in fact it's one that has occurred to me before now but needed a lighting guru like yourself @Garry Edwards to make it work. We had a thread a long time back about doing flash-lit setups using a cardboard box with white or black paper lining, as I recall, which was really good and popular. A series of challenges would be a good way of bringing new life to the Lighting section as well as stretching people and providing learning opportunities.
I don't see this working like the D/FPOTY or such challenges with voting on images, so it may be better, instead of setting a monthly challenge with that timescale, to instead set such challenges with open timescales, eg a Product Photography challenge to shoot a partially full wine glass and bottle with no closure date or maybe just a year, such as "the 2024 wine glass challenge". Using the 52 model of Final Entries and Personal Story threads is a good idea.
 
These days I shoot almost everything with available light, however I manipulate that and the subject as necessary to show the subject as best I can, I have, but rarely use, flash guns for this purpose but often use reflectors where necessary.

When shooting "things" it it is rarely about the quantity of light but always the quality of light and how it falls on the subject. If you can't move the light you can always move the object. Lighting is more about looking, seeing and thinking than anything else.
 
Sounds great to me, thank you @Garry Edwards and congrats on the demotion!

Perhaps we can start with the jumping cat challenge that I’ve seen discussed more than a couple of time iirc :) although my cats are getting a bit old for jumping…
 
lindsay said:
I like the suggestion, in fact it's one that has occurred to me before now but needed a lighting guru like yourself @Garry Edwards to make it work. We had a thread a long time back about doing flash-lit setups using a cardboard box with white or black paper lining, as I recall, which was really good and popular. A series of challenges would be a good way of bringing new life to the Lighting section as well as stretching people and providing learning opportunities.
I don't see this working like the D/FPOTY or such challenges with voting on images, so it may be better, instead of setting a monthly challenge with that timescale, to instead set such challenges with open timescales, eg a Product Photography challenge to shoot a partially full wine glass and bottle with no closure date or maybe just a year, such as "the 2024 wine glass challenge". Using the 52 model of Final Entries and Personal Story threads is a good idea.
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I think that way would result in far more participation, far less like school classes and homework on time :)
 
Sangoma said:
I think that way would result in far more participation, far less like school classes and homework on time :)
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As I see it, a high level of participation is what matters, so I think that we need to set challenges that everyone can meet, e.g. small subjects that need very little space, simple setups that don't need any specialised lighting - does this make sense?
TimHughes said:
Sounds great to me, thank you @Garry Edwards and congrats on the demotion!

Perhaps we can start with the jumping cat challenge that I’ve seen discussed more than a couple of time iirc :) although my cats are getting a bit old for jumping…
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I'm intrigued, what's that about, and are you volunteering?
 
I’d be up for this, might give my creative muscles some exercise in my partial retirement.

I even have access to a cat, but no idea whether it jumps, or even whether capturing it jumping would make an interesting’ image.
 
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Ed Sutton said:
Jumping cats should be pretty straightforward.
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After reading Halsman's account of the shoot, I think they were thrown. It's a technicality I know...
 
Harlequin565 said:
After reading Halsman's account of the shoot, I think they were thrown. It's a technicality I know...
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True. But it's all about the light. :exit:
 
OK, I'm sold on the idea, so will now start off with the first challenge.
Each challenge will be a sticky thread for a month, you can add to any challenge at any time, but of course threads work their way down the list once I have removed the sticky bit.

Please feel free to add to this thread at any time, we can use it as an ongoing discussion thread to improve future challenges.
 
I'd be up for giving it a go, albeit I've only got flash guns. Thanks for setting this up (y)
 
ELT357Photography said:
This sound like an awesome idea, seeing as I am working on enhancing my use of OCF!
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Welcome to TP:)
I hope that these challenges help, there is also quite a lot of static content in the tutorials section, and over 11,000 archived discussion threads, all of which are searchable, so plenty of info that can be helpful.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Welcome to TP:)
I hope that these challenges help, there is also quite a lot of static content in the tutorials section, and over 11,000 archived discussion threads, all of which are searchable, so plenty of info that can be helpful.
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Congratulations on the demotion Garry, much deserved

And well done on the infomercial too ;)
 
Great starting challenge and thanks for setting it up.
So how is this supposed to work, do we post into the main sticky and/ or start our own thread like the 52 challenge?
 
RyanB said:
Great starting challenge and thanks for setting it up.
So how is this supposed to work, do we post into the main sticky and/ or start our own thread like the 52 challenge?
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To participate in an existing challenge, you take your shots and post into that challenge thread.

If you want to start your own challenge then you'll start a new thread - but please discuss it with me first, via PM, so that it doesn't get confusing.
 
Garry Edwards said:
To participate in an existing challenge, you take your shots and post into that challenge thread.

If you want to start your own challenge then you'll start a new thread - but please discuss it with me first, via PM, so that it doesn't get confusing.
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OK, so everything in the main sticky thread (or no longer sticky depending if the next lighting challenge thread has started). Thanks for clearing that up as it was mentioned above it could be run like the 52 challenge but I think I understand now.(y):)
 
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